How can artists value themselves outside of the prevailing system? In Part 2 of my interview with Michaell Magrutsche we discuss the true value of artists and creative people. Start with our value as creative humans. Fail there and you remain stuck within the "system" and always trying to compete and fit in.
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Welcome to Loosen Up Your Paintingpodcast, the podcast for creatives making
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Welcome to the loosen upYour Painting podcast.
I'm your host, Malcolm Dewey.
And today I've got a special guest, Michaell Magrutsche
Michaell's been on the show before
and we're back together again to discussMichaell's latest article on the worth
and value of ourselves as human beings.Breaking out of the system to give more
expression to our innate values as artists and creatives.
And look out on my blog where I'm going
to publish this interview as well for download of Michael's latest article.
You can also find out more about Michael On his firstname.lastname@example.org.
That's Michael with two L's and have a look at his writing and art and get in touch
with him as well to discuss any of his coaching services.
All right, without further delay, let's begin.
It's nice to chat with you again.
Good to see you again, Malcolm.
Well, I've had a lot of positive response
to our last chat about art,creativity and trying to survive or keep
out of the system so we can be more creative.
Recently you've sent me link to your
latest article on LinkedIn and I had a look at that and I thought it would be
a good topic or general topic for us to chat about today.
And I guess in your article is titled Money and Systems and Value.
What it comes down to is, as you've summarized, is how much is a human worth?
Have we lost our appreciation for our humanity?
What is the problem that we as artists and people in general are facing right now?
Yes, we talked about last time that 95%to 97% of artists are worldwide poor.
And that's something that interests me very much because it saved my life.
Since I told you I was a sick child and I
was dyslexic, I couldn't fit in any systems.
And actually that is a good thing because it made me see now it does my work now
to look at systems and to look at what is the value of artists,
We briefly touched on that, that artists have never defined yourselves.
That's why I have my podcast Smart of Art,and that artists need to define
themselves, but in order to find themselves.
I think I did this deep dive on this article, which I think you can give a PDF
on this episode so people can see it,because this is not about me or
you, this is about us all and we have to recognise that the value
of the world and being human is in the human to get on this in the inclusivity.
And art is a perfect
environment where I think this is still practiced, it's not as strong as it was,
but in art it's about the project,it's not about oh,
I'm better than I'm older, I'm younger,I'm woman, I'm man, I'm gender.
You're just who you are and you
participate in the project and everybody gives the best that they can do.
So if somebody is good at stretching canvases, right, Malcolm?
Everybody goes to the canvas stretcher,
you have good paints, you have the yellow you can only get from that guy.
You go to that guy and everybody has its part.
Nobody is better.
It's like in nature, the elephant isn't worth more than the ant.
It's about the balance,about putting it all together.
You are valuable because you exist and I Think that's important for artists to
I suppose if you are successful
already in what you're doing, you've got an audience or you're
stretching canvases and you're the best canvas stretcher in town,
Maybe that person can relax into being themselves.
I think we find all the problems with people that are struggling
to keep their head above water or they don't feel appreciated or valued
and that is where all the, from self esteem issues to more chronic
problems.And maybe it's that person who could be
listening to this and need to appreciate their value simply for showing up.
They don't have to be the best, but as long as they show up and make a go of it.
Is that a starting point?
I think there's two things
when you do the best, so just showing upis number one is you're absolutely right.
It's the first step.
You show up and you gauge where you're going to fit in.
So what is that not what is the hardest,
what you have to prove to the thing that is what system conditioning does.
You have the best system
relevant for that system and you cannot define yourself with saying the system
needs a plumber, thereforeI'm going to be a plumber.
What is your human value?
I'm good with my hands,
I'm good with my eyes,I'm good with my ears,
I'm good with people, I'm not good with people, it doesn't matter.
But you need to know about self awareness.
And I think art is such a powerful tool
because there's nobody that tells you,obviously when the project is finished.
The system takes it as a product like a bicycle.
But while you're creating,
while you're interacting with your unseenself, so you're interacting constantly.
You have an inspiration.That's a thought.
I mean, it's already physical and some people say that's already physical.
But you have a thought, an inspiration,
a color, a person, and you want to - it inspires you to do something.
It inspires you to create that energy,
to create that person, to do a portrait.
Or it inspires you to do still life.
I don't know, an abstract painting that could be a person, it could be a color.
And then you work on this.
You start with a blank canvas,which is very important because without
the space, it's like you giving me space to talk.
Without you, I cannot paint,
I cannot draw my thoughts because these are not previously discussed themes.
We do this on the fly.
When you paint it, you are interacting. I Have yellow and then I put red, green
and oh, I'm going to make this face here, whatever.
And then usually, as you know,the painting takes over.
So you're the master of the blank space.
And then you start with something.
And then there is a point where a purple
dot doesn't fit or purple rectangle doesn't fit in that.
It would be disharmonious, too dish,
harmonious, too unbalanced to use purple in this thing of whatever colors that are
not fitting or in the composition of shapes could for that, be a shape.
A circle wouldn't fit,a square wouldn't fit.
And this interaction teaches you stuff.
I mean, look at me.
I have no education.Zero.
I mean, I'm a certified coach.
But nothing I use from what I learned,my learning comes from my wisdom that I
I have, or knowledge comes all from creating because I'm an artist at six years old.
And through that constant,
I don't know,I never took count of my paintings, but
I just saw on Instagram Ihad 1200 paintings on there.
But there is still nothing compared toa Picasso because he had 35,000, right?
So I guess that feeling of
being always in the nonphysical and the physical and always jumping back
and forth keeps you in the moment because that's only possible in the moment.
And I think you learn so much about
humanity, about being,about your worth too.
Because I would suggest to every artist,even if you think this is the most
horrible painting,never, or Song or whatever,
never throw it away, put it somewhere and look at it in five months.
And I've never heard of somebody that comes back.
He said that you can confirm that or not.
But when somebody puts a painting away
and then looks after a year at that painting, he might say one of two things.
One, oh, I know what this painting needs.
And then the painting is finished.
Or he says, oh my God,
This is actually a really good painting because you have a distance.
Your ego is distanced from that and I've
never heard of, oh,I looked at it and I threw it away.
I've never heard a single artist telling me, perhaps it's out there.
I'm not saying there's no I've never seen
anybody going back to something that he hated or they just put back and said,
I'm painting over it, or something,and then pull that painting out and say,
wow, that is good, or hey,I know exactly what it needs now.
Now I know what it needs.
So I don't know what your experience is.
It is very true
and it is advice I give to many of my art students as well is even at the very
at least, let your painting rest for a few days and then have a look at it.
And just the other day I pulled out a painting that I had done last year.
Maybe two years ago.
And I quite liked it even then.
But I realized how I moved on andI painted the same subject just improved
it just painted straight over what was already there.
Which was taking a bit of a risk becauseI knew I kind of liked the painting.
But I knew I could bring it out to its full potential.
But if I started and then messed that up,
then there was a risk that I would make it worse.
So you have that, you second guess yourself
and you have that little twinge of fear that maybe you should just leave it alone.
But anyway, we got stuck into it,
finished the painting,and I'm now much more happy with it.
And I think in that little that is a very tiny little experience,
but it's a microcosm of what we do with our lives as well.
It is a microcosm of human life,it is of humanity.
That's why I always say we are
the stewards of bringing the human being forward.
Not the human being,but bringing the human being.
And we also live
so much more conscious because we always the physical, non physical,
in inspiration, in mind,the mind, hand control,
I don't know if there's a word brain,mind coordination and all that stuff.
So we constantly because you have to bein the moment, you cannot say, okay,
I want this hand to do something,but I'm thinking about a girlfriend.
That doesn't work.
You have to focus in the moment to get
enough information that you can actually bring out whatever you intend to do onto
the brush or onto your voice oronto your whatever you can't think.
So music or art is always in the moment when you create it.
And that's why it's so powerful,that's why it teaches you everything all
of a sudden, you know,stuff that you never knew.
And it works on its own time.
So if I feel totally distraught out of talent and I want to do to paint
something or sing something or make a music or write something, I can't do it.
I have to balance first.
I have to get in the moment,
do a breathing exercise or something to get in the moment.
And then that's why I say when you have a writer's block
and by the way, writer's block is also a system symptom.
Because I think before 1957, nobody wrote about writer's block. That's good
they didn't say the writer's block.
I always suggest that people
I'm going to use one color that I choose in painting.
I use one color, okay,
I think about this pink, orange,this is a special and I'm going to make
that color, mix it and I put it on the canvas and then I let it sit.
And if that's all and I'm all disturbed,that's my focus.
But if I feel like I will jump into it and it will go.
If it doesn't, it doesn't.
And I think that is so helpful.
So like when you want to, if extreme
writer's block, with writers especially so then I suggest you write one word
and then extend on that word and then leave.
And then you need to give yourself permission.
You need to be permission,
a human permission, not a system permission to get imbalanced.
That's why we have seasons,that's why we have periods, cycles.
You're out of balance and that's why you are distraught.
That's why you cannot create.
And you need to first imbalance everything first imbalance.
That's the real power.
The power is not power over orpower under or submit to something.
You need to submit to your balance.
If there's one submittal,it is your balance.
So I wasn't listening to heavy metal and freaked out before I talked here.
I took quiet and then okay.
And I wasn't thinking anything, I was just being. Took a shower and said okay.
When you're talking about writer's block
and all the sort of blockages that we throw in our way, I think
My biggest problem is probably just the basic case of procrastination.
Is it? The question is, is it? I'm Interrupting you on purpose here.
Is it procrastination or is it your way of balancing?
Well, I don't know.
Well, all I can say is that when I start
the day I want to start in my studio doing something, but I always find myself
for the first three or 4 hours of the day doing something totally different.
It could be vacuuming the carpets,
it could be sweeping up leaves outside,anything to avoid getting to work.
But I usually find that by the time
The afternoon comes around then I'mready to get back to work in my studio.
So I'm starting to think that maybe it is
simply some type of biorhythm thing which
I have to get into a certain state,a certain mindset to be creative.
I love that you said that.
Yeah, I love that you say that because Ithink, number one,
Laziness is a system word. It's like you're supposed to work in the morning.
From supposed is a killer word because
there's no suppose, because every human is different.
I'm best in the morning,you're best in the afternoon.
I was a night person.
I changed to a morning person.
It's up to what cycle we go through.
What age we are or whatever.
Every time you hear it,don't listen to it.
And then lazy, too.
Or procrastination, because procrastination is this, is the symptom.
It looks like procrastination.
But then you would say, I hate art because then you really need to get in touch.
If that was true for a constitution,you would rather sweep the carpets.
And I doubt I don't believe that because I
know you're good enough that I say you hate painting or you hate art.
You're not ready, you're not balanced.
You need to contemplate more.
You need to be more by sweeping, cleaning.
The CEO that works 60,80 hours a week comes on the weekend.
He works in the garden.
We are tinkerers.
That's why being lazy is such a lie.
We need to tinker.
Even if we have a four day week or three day work week, we always need to tinker.
That's why you come home on the weekend
and you work on your car and why do you work?
Why don't you just sit in front of Netflixand watch that all weekend long?
And that happens too.
And that's not wrong either.
But just be aware of what you're doing.That's what I see.
I like what you're saying there.
It does ring true.
And I think, yeah, I like that idea.
I like the idea of not feeling guilty and beating yourself up because you're not
at the desk or at the easel at 09:00 A.m. Each day.
And that is a very self-destructive way of thinking.
But you mentioned words.
What about words like fear?
Are these actions?
Are we perhaps fearful?
Maybe our art is not good enough or we fear that we're going to look foolish?
Is fear a real problem or is it also
a question of just getting some balance in your life?
I think it's balance between past
and being in the present,being in the moment conditions.
I'm a master in fear because I think I was
40 years in my life,I had so much fear and anxiety.
I was driving on a freeway
and all of a sudden,developed a panic attack,
not a panic attack, I just froze up inthe middle of a six lane freeway in La.
This is why podcasts are so important,because people can relate.
They always think the system says, oh, you're born and everything should be hunky dory.
If it isn't, we sell you a Ferrari,we sell you a pill and we believe it.
We are very adaptable.
That's why systems can work.
And then we do this.
So fear is basically when a sabertooth tiger comes into your cave, okay?
You got to recognise it.
You got to recognise it's an animal.
It's a predatory animal.
You need to recognise all these things.
So to say, for example,political correctness says equality.
And you shouldn't see a genderor a race or sexuality.
You see it because your reptilian brain
needs to identify if it's a foe or a friend.
So you need to recognise it.
That doesn't mean you need to have your stereotypes mixed in and start thinking
about what this person is going to do to you.
Or when a bus jumps.
I mean, those are the justified fears.
Or when a bus comes and almost hits you.
That's why fear is done.
It gets your adrenals.And what does it do?
It puts you in a moment.
It puts you in a moment.
So fear is always when your mind takes over,
your mind construct,which is a system conditioning,
because systems say, oh,if you do this, this happens.
So you're constantly in potential of what will happen and you will never reach it.
This is what I said in that article.
I talked to so many successful people and nobody knows.
I have sold $11,000 paintings and I cannot tell you why I did it and how I did it.
Somebody came, he said he liked the painting.
I set a price and he took it.
I didn't say, but that was one, two paintings, right?
My paintings went for five, $6,000.
Usually like two.
It depends on the size.
Which is also stupidbecause Mona Lisa is mini.
And look at the price of that.
This is a system we make values
that we all adhere to that are completely irrelevant and we cannot define or.
That's why I say artists have to start defining themselves how important their
work is and why it is working and what is the function of it.
So when I look at the painting, I'm buying
a physical representation of Malcolm's Interaction with the non physical.
I'm buying a physical from your
conversation with your unconscious or God or matrix or whatever.
So how you see it, even with how you see
it, I see stuff that Recognises behind you.
But I'm getting a deeper that's why I say
the more we know about the function,the more we appreciate art.
Because all of a sudden it makes human sense and not system sense.
There's no human sense for saying what a painting should be worth $400 million.
There's no human sense for it because you know that there is a million paintings
that touch you deeply and then they dont touch you.
And it's okay when that painting doesn't touch you.
But to put a price on it destroys it for everyone.
Because it should be whatever you're willing.
It should be an honor.
I think the most honest way for artists should be that people
honor you while you're alive,saying, hey, I would like this.
But the market destroys it because the market says mostly dead artists
and that's the market also that's the monopoly because it's a limited supply.
It is dead.
We know there's only 150 pictures and you can have one of them.
Do you think that artists and creative
Do people in general have a duty to create and share their work?
There was something about that.
I've read about artists, obviously,in the,
let's say thousands of years ago in the tribal sense or et cetera,
the artist was a functioning,important part of the community and had
certain functions, magical or religious or whatever it was.
And of course,that's gone through many adaptations.
But now, in the modern time,I think we've been belittled a lot.
You know, things like sometimes I hear
people saying the world doesn't need more people studying arts.
Bachelor of Arts at university.
They should be at a college learning how
to be electricians and plumbers and engineers.
That's all the world needs.
There's more engineers.
And the last thing we need is some artsy fartsy person.
Yeah, those are system disturbed people.
Those are system disturbed people because,like you said, the cave paintings.
Okay, so let's say going to triple.
Let's go right back.
I love that, because we can find perhaps what is important about art.
There was this kid or this person or this woman or whatever in the tribe
that actually could have hand eye coordination.
That's what it's called,hand eye coordination.
And he could draw a mammoth,a fish, or something on the wall.
And he did that on the wall because he
could do it the best he could do,like stretching a canvas.
He could do the drawing.
And why is it important?
Because stories like podcasts make people relate to each other.
And I think perhaps subconsciously,these people were aware of let's say they
made a spear and you see them steering in a mammoth and they draw that cave fanning.
It stimulated conversation which we see in museums today.
I don't think so,but I say there's magic that happens.
You want to see the magic of art?
Every race, every color,
every political party,every religion can be at an art open.
Opening and the last thing they do is looking at art.
But they're communicating together.
And I think art has a very strong thing in common.
So when you see a cave painting,look at what we do with them.
We've discovered a new cave, if anything.Sweet.
What did they say?
And that's I think
art is the best history, the most objective history, documentation.
And I think that's what we are.
I think we are here,
we are not conscious of it,but this is what we're doing right now.
We make ourselves conscious.
If we are here to tell humans,
our future generations, how we sawa Harvard, what I see back there,
or how we saw this,they know, the next generation knows.
And over many generations is oh,this is how they perceive certain things.
Because you know that the most distinctive
sense is the eyesight,because that's the most discerning.
So I'm talking especially of this art,but singing and noises and sounds.
Just think about the ringtones,
the old ringtones from the old phonebathat everybody knows since in every movie.
So we are in our being doing the best that we can do, searching a canvas,
painting on the wall, doing whatever,singing a song.
We are documenting the human condition.
And I think this is an excellent question, by the way.
I never thought about it.
But that happens when people talk.
There is a quote by Maya Angelou and I
only remember part of it,but she said something like people will
forget everything about you except how you made them feel.
It doesn't matter
how good your art is or whether you're a beginner or a master, because
let's take a situation where a child draws a painting for a parent
and if that parent is well adjusted,they will probably think that's
the greatest piece of art and you put it up on your wall.
And I still have my children's art framed on the wall.
And of course, to anyone else,it's not worth anything financially.
Then you've got a master artist who will do a beautiful painting,
let's say Monet,and I love the painting,
or Van Gogh or whatever,and you look at it and you think that's
an absolutely fantastic painting and you love it.
But out of both pieces of art,
your child's art and that Monet painting,you love them both, even though the one is
simply a child's premature drawing because it's how they make you feel.
Artists can just keep that in mind.
It doesn't matter if they are not in a museum.
Their duty is to create art and communicate that to people,
communicate their feelings through their art and help people feel something after.
Most of our days are filled with,
As you say, the system influences and by the end of the day you're completely numb.
But a little piece of art, music, or writing a picture can make someone's day.
That's what it comes to.
It brings you right in the balanceit brings you in the balance.
And you said, should everybody?
I think art asks nothing more than being created.
Art doesn't mean you have to be famous.
That's all system, that's all when the product is done.
But art itself, the energy of creativity wants to be created.
It comes through an inspiration,
it comes through a thought,it comes through something.
And it creates an emotion in you and you create it.
And therein is obviously the most power
because in creation,look at what the world is created.
But it was seen, this is where the discrepancy.
So art does want nothing else but be created.
So it will create anything.
Dark saying things, killing people, and helping people.
Creativity wants to be created.
And wherever you go, bring it.
I mean, the atomic bomb is good for energy
or is bad for the environment or it's bad for both.
It doesn't really matter.
It's just what you do with what comes in.
So I feel it needs to be created.
That's number one and two is two points in art.
It wants to be created and it wants to be exposed.
And if it's only exposed to one person,
because I think with the feedback,the art settles in.
So it's not just your interaction
with the non physical,it's then sharing that physical that you
brought in that gift with somebody else,not millions of people.
It doesn't have to be.
I'm not saying you shouldn't,but if you have the chance, of course,
with as many people as you want to share your share.
And this experience of doing that creates tremendous self esteem in you.
There's a reason why I exist.
When the system didn't give birth,the system didn't create nature.
So we have to be grounded.
And we are the highest being on this planet because even Apple
has not given birth to a single child or Nike, or a state.
Russia has not given children things,but they've taken lives.
Russia and Ukraine both took lives.
I'm not going into politics,but I'm just saying we need to see
and we need to grab back and say it's about humans first.
And systems have to be like a tribe that has to serve us.
Why did we start doing a tribe?
To be safe, to be secure,
and to be able to grow our human potential so that the mother doesn't sit just
with the child and does nothing else but that function of being a child.
But the mother can go and pluck fairy
berries or do whatever or weave or create art.
It wasn't done.
But if the mother is alone in a cave
and the husband is hunting or whatever stereotypes, you're right here again.
But then it doesn't make sense.
It's better to do it together.
And the power, the exponential power is when you were together with somebody else,
with at least one person,and have a discourse, an exchange
and not right wrong, because right wrong supposed to those are all system words.
That a system condition world
that separates us and makes us think we have to carry all the burden.
It's like me saying before this talk,I think I need to figure everything out.
When I'm talking to Malcolm no,because I'm an artist,
I start trusting that I will have the right conversation
in this interaction and the stuff will come with whatever needs to come comes
because we are used to writing constantly.
And they say, how can you not beprepared when you talk about the topics?
Because it comes in what comes in.
When you talk about the system.
I think when we were younger,
in the last century,all talk about the system meant
you finished school, you go to university,you get a job, you work your way up
the corporate ladder,you buy lots of nice things for your
house, and you retire at 65and you die when you're 70.
And that was the ideal that we were told.
And along the way, yes,take out lots of insurance and make sure
your children carry on with the same thing.
And then we've seen that in the school
system, you had troubles with your school because you didn't fit in.
But the schools were also geared to churning out middle managers.
And it's only the outliers that really broke out of the school system.
So maybe you're an outlier, but the point
is, now we've got my age,your age, whatever.
We've got children that are entering the world.
Let's say we know the old system,so how do we explain this?
Or should we even bother trying to the new millennial growing up in the century.
I would start with the first lie.
I would tell him all my kids,
or any young kids, which I tell him the fundamental lie that makes everything
distraught, that makes humanity,is that life should be perfect.
You should never be depressed,you should never be sad.
It should never rain.
Basically, what the system says,it should never rain.
And if it does rain,
we sell you an umbrella,we sell you a pill, we sell you whatever.
I said, we are in a two dimensional world in opposite yin and yang,
and the airplane doesn't fly from here to New York on a straight line.
It constantly adjusts.
And these ambiguities that you can counter guide post to say, okay, I'm going there.
I'm not going there.
And to get your own abilities to say,okay, I want to be a baker.
Okay, you go baker,but you don't want to get up
in the morning and the job doesn't give you enough passion that you say,
I don't care, because, you know,like I do, when you have an inspiration,
you get up at 05:00 and you goto the cameras, you go sing the song.
That's why I say that's suchan organic way of being an artist.
And this organic we can't losethat organic place by saying, okay,
now you have to go get a masters in fine art and have to learn, basically,
art history, because they're not talking like what we're talking right now.
That's artist talk.
Artists talk to artists,and there's no more mentoring.
You know, that mentoring is almost gone.
And we have such an organic, humane
power in us as artists,and I think we are chosen.
It's not a choice.It's just we are chosen,
or we chose to carry that on,be the stewards for humanity.
And I think that's number one.
Then I think we need to teach superpowers.
We have three superpowers.
Number one is creativity.
Look at everything we created in this world, good and bad.
And when you look at something,you look at Apple Nike brand,
look at it, be astonished by it and say,okay, don't look at it.
It's better.It's separated from me.
It's a part of humanity,and you are part of it.
So you are somehow a part of Apple,
but you are also somehow a part of the Ukraine Russian war.
That comes secondary.
But I would teach my kid that.
I would say, first of all,it's not everything.
And look at the range so that you see from killing people to Apple iPhone,
the new one, or iPad and all that,what that culture offers you.
We created it out of nothing.
Remember, there was a stone age.
Look at this.
Every iPhone has more power now than Apollo.
Every iPhone has that iPhone.
So make them aware of the power of what's in them, the limitlessness
of the creativity, and then say,be aware of the three superpowers,
at least that I haven't identified as,number one, creativity.
because the power is in the inclusion dialogue, healthy dialogue,
because there's stuff coming in,and I see you taking notes, too.
There's stuff coming in that you were aware of.
We are aware of everything, but basically,yeah, I want to make a point of this.
I want to come back to it.
And then the three are adaptable.
Please never forget that third superpower we make through our adaptability.
The systems work because systems are always limited.
They have one function, two functions
by our will and adaptability,we can make it.
So I think that what's his name,Arizona ex-governor,
that passed away.
He was in a tiger cage,in a tiger cage for four years.
If you cannot adapt, you cannot survive.
I mean, there's no logic that says you
can't adapt, but that's a superpower adaptability.
And how much do you make work because you adapt to it?
We have adaptability.
So when able to stagger comes that we know what to do.
So when you come and you start arguing
at me, you start attacking me,I know I have the wisdom in me to
go on the side and don't take the error or whatever.
I have to ask the wisdom to handle this with my adaptability.
But adaptability means you have to adapt to the system.
That's where your value is,and that's not where your value is.
You still can work in the system and be powerful.
But that's what I tell kids.
It's a long answer.Yeah.
I think there may be a lot of hope for us because
a lot of young adults are starting to reject the system themselves.
An example comes to mind of my son telling me he's not going to do computer science,
He doesn't want to go to university,he wants to be a writer.
If I hadn't been an artist,I think I probably would have had a heart
attack at that and thought,you'd never amount to anything.
But how could I get on his case?
Because I have to just say,well, there you go.
Another thing comes to mind, though,
is trying to force things to happen,artists trying to force changes,
trying to force themselves onto others to get attention, more influence.
And I always find that any attempt to force something doesn't work.
And your life said that right.
You confirmed that with your life.
And I too, I absolutely agree with you.
Forcing the attention was important,what you said, you said something.
It's the attention that you get,
but the most attention you get when you're you I think we're all mummies.
We come to Earth,we learn how to be physical and we get
bandaged, because it physically means this by parents till eight years.
And you get banished and you get more
and more mummified, and then you get in school and you're more mummified.
And then at the end of the school,you are mummified, you cannot move.
And then comes life,
and then you take the bandages off and find more and more of who you are.
And that would be the organic process
of our existence, with systems that you take off, there not that you go somewhere
towards you are everything that you already are, but you haven't unveiled it.
And experience, like the podcastor whatever helps you unveil more.
The dialogue, which is dialogue helps you
unveil who you are to interact with other races, other sexes,
because our gender and race and sexwas never supposed to be even an issue.
Everybody does whatever they can,the best that they can.
If a woman is the best canvas stretcher, she does it.
It should never be.
The system is so limited,so they put us in this separation
and now we have to refund to get back,because the power is in the inclusion,
it's not in the exclusion,it's in the together.
It's not better, it's worse.
Disempowering seems to be the biggest
feature in the world at the moment,keeping people divided,
As you say, raising things like race andsex and religion and all of those things.
Why even bother?
And if you had four people on a deserted island, you'd all learn to work together,
you wouldn't worry about petty things like that.
But that's how we kept disempowered.
That's why we kept off balance and were fearful.
I get the impression that the world
in general is waking up to this and there's a lot of people starting
to realize they're just being manipulated by systems, by governments.
That's the last place we need to look for
anything positive at the heart of being a creative person.
What I find is that we are incredibly self
reliant, naturally independent,but we can cooperate and contribute.
But right now everything seems to be forcing us to stand with a cap in hand
and wait for a handout and then if we don't get it,
then we've got to blame someone else for it because it's not our fault.
I think that's the last thoughtI wanted to just mention.
Perhaps you can comment as well as take responsibility.
You got to take responsibility to find
your power, otherwise you'll never discover what you can do.
Yeah, so I think responsibility is also first of all, I think the most responsible
artist, as much as that sounds crazy,because what does an artist do?
He is an inspiration and he finishes the product.
We finish the product,we have an idea we're not doing it.
We don't put it together so that it doesn't work.
We create that.
We have inspiration,we create it and we finish it.
I feel a lot of people are jealous of artists because they can create
and they feel from system conditioning they can only do on a conveyor belt three
company or they can only talk to I mean,you see it in customer service.
They have to give you 15 tiers.
One person is so conditioned to be limited that they can only talk about a return.
They cannot talk about the quality of the product or anything.
While you're returning,you have to give it to another tier.
So they ask you what email service you need?
You need this service and this service
and it can be very limited because it's all controlled.
And that's why I'm sayingI'm not against systems.
I'm saying we need to reassess our power and our interaction with systems.
We need to renew.
We are limitless.
We can make systems that system,we can make a capitalism that is ethnic,
that is not 24/7 open and continuously works against
the organs and life force that people need to actually work.
If I want to get the most out of you,I want you to be balanced.
I'm a leader, I'm running teams and stuff.
I look, how can I balance this?
This guy needs a little bit more,
break this less and he is blooming when he has less break.
But I also know that he's going over the target.
So it's about all balance, it's all about keeping everybody in balance.
And I think entitlement is a symptom of that.
It's a symptom.
The entitlement is because you're so
neutered by the system, they sayI have to demand and it's just a symptom.
We need to recognise this entitlement,
not be upset because I get the sameI'm at the same emotional thing.
They think they get everything for free.
But if we see it like this,
then it's human against human,which is anyway against in the system
because system maintenance, system navigation, the new taxes come out and we
find out new ways to navigate those taxes, not to pay them.
It's human against human.
And what we need to do is dialogue.
That's why I think it's unconscious.
I think the drive to so many podcasts,even though it's not the same,
if I would sit right now with you,we would give him more out of it.
But other people can hook into this tribal campfire talk.
I'm so glad you're doing this because
art is the essential if you want to have humanity flourish for the next generations
and for your kids and give it any value.
So we have lost the value because we created it.
Like an artist creates a doll
and then he makes it beautiful,she's lifelike and then all of a sudden he
starts talking to the doll,everything is fine, but all of a sudden he
says can you give me a taxtip how I can pay less taxes?
And then it becomes a mind construct.
You are so amazed by that.
You are creative that you could create
this doll that you submitted, say okay,this thing is more than me.
This is like when you create Apple.
I mean, you think
not the whole Apple is worse than a human being because humans created that.
If Apple would have created human beings,then Apple has every right to talk about
taking lives or whatever or mistreating human beings or whatever.
I'm not saying Apple does,but I'm saying the perception.
We need to go around the fountain when
The sun shines and sees there's a rainbow and that's what we teach our kids.
OK, let's go around the fountain.Then you see the rainbow.
You never forget that.
It's an experiential experience, learning and you know it for the next generations
and people will find rainbows a good word to end.
That is a good one.
Well, Michaell,it's been good chatting to you again.
I hope to have a little chat to you again
in a few more months and we'll see if the world has made some improvements.
Not too confident about that,
but hopefully people listening to this make some personal
commitments to their art and creativity and then that will have a positive effect.
So you're going to send me your article
and I'm going to provide that as well as a download for people listening to this.
Just Michaellm.com. Michael with two l's
that's my hub and you get everywhere and you can contact me or whatever,
and I encourage everybody,human or just human or artists,
to listen to the Smart of Art podcast that 20 seconds doesn't take any time.
It doesn't take time away from Malcolm's and my episode.
And that has to be aware it will make much
more sense and to find the human power and inclusion and to find
this incredible power of creativity that we kind of have lost our sight of,
and with that, we have lost the side of our humanity.
And I thank you so much for giving me that platform in Cocreating with me.
A beautiful talk.
I've learned a lot.
It's a pleasure, Michael.
Thanks very much.
And we'll chat again soon.
I want to thank Michael Magrutsch for being
my special guest on today's episode of Loosen Up Your Painting podcast.
Find out more about Michael and his
email@example.com.It's Michael with two LS.
Also, take a moment to visit my website,Malcolmdewyfinar.com,
where you can find this interview with the transcript and also have a look
at some of the painting courses that are on offer.
Be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you may be listening to it.
And we'll have a new episode for you soon.
Finally find out more on my YouTube channel as well.
You could be watching this interview right there as well and have a look at the other
works on Youtube/malcolm dewey and there's plenty there for you as artists.
Thank you very much for joining me and we'll talk again soon.
Cheers for now.